Plenty of real estate experts have placed their bets on what 2020 may hold, but we’re finally seeing stats that demonstrate how this year will pan out for agents. On today’s State of the Market podcast, we dig through the data to uncover where markets are actually going. Hear why 2020 could be a great year for your business along with pertinent real estate news, including stories of a new Redfin-like company coming to America’s markets and a partial-ownership model that could change the industry.
Listen to today’s show and learn:
- Surprising home sale stats [6:19]
- The nation’s current housing inventory [9:13]
- The CoreLogic lawsuit [13:12]
- How appraisers make educated guesses on property values [18:00]
- A new Redfin-like company coming to markets nationwide [19:45]
- How traditional real estate companies are falling behind [29:30]
- A new partial-ownership model for home buyers [30:55]
- How to break through your goals.
- Plus so much more.
Related Links and Resources:
- Grow Your Real Estate Profits with Our Agent Success Toolbox
- Get Tribe of Millionaires by Pat Hiban and David Osborn for FREE
- Get 6 Steps to 7 Figures by Pat Hiban for FREE
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Read the Full Interview
Aaron: Hey, Rockstar Nation, this is Aaron Amuchastegui with Pat Hiban for the first state of the market of 2020. It is crazy to think that our new year has started. It’s been a couple of weeks since we got to talk to you last and we’ve got all sorts of news to talk about today. Pat, how are you?
Pat: Good, buddy. How are you doing? It’s great. Happy New Year.
Aaron: Happy New Year. Excited to be back.
Pat: What do you want to dive in to first, brother? What do you think? How about these stats, man? There are so many stats coming out with the New Year. Let’s talk about some.
Aaron: Yes, we were talking predictions a few weeks ago and now, already, there’s all the news that are hitting the headlines. It’s a big step, which is funny because 2019 was a year where there’s plenty of people thinking the market was going up, plenty of people thinking the market was going down, and now we’re seeing this first one. First one that jumped out to me today said that Idaho home prices jumped 10% in November.
Aaron: That totally stuck out to me as crazy because, traditionally, November and December, people aren’t really buying that many houses in the middle of that school year as holidays are starting. To see a 10% increase in Idaho at the end of the year, that would tell me, “Hey, the market’s booming and doing really well.”
Pat: Yes, absolutely. I think prices are up. The negative numbers that you see are inventory being down, which a simple economics with supply and demand would makes sense. You have less houses, so people are willing to pay more, because if the demand is still there, yet– You have less houses, yet you have– Basically, you have less transactions though because agents are– Less real estate commission is being paid and this being a show for real estate agents, that means less agents are getting paid because there’s less houses to buy.
Aaron: Yes, I think agents like it when there’s a lot of houses on the market. What were the stats saying for months of inventory?
Pat: Yes and no. If it’s too many, then it’s a buyer’s market and then it works against the agents. The same thing could be said if there’s too little because then people are competing and there’s not enough transactions. You’re writing three or four offers to get one a house, so you’re working harder. It’s really hard to say what agents like.
I think agents just like to get paid, so, if you’re just looking at the number of transactions, that’s always the best number. A lot of those numbers aren’t out yet. As far as the inventory is concerned, it says we’re at a three-year low. It say housing inventory is at its three-year low. First time in three years since beginning of 2018, it looks like.
Aaron: Does it say months of inventory in there? Is it saying like, this is the least amount of houses available or is it saying [crosstalk]?
Pat: This is coming off of HousingWire and it said the month of December 2019 saw the largest year-over-year decline of housing inventory and almost three years of inventory declined by 12% according to realtor.com.
Aaron: Yes, that’s less houses.
Pat: Yes, just bottom line. Why do you think there’s less houses for sale?
Aaron: There are maybe two things that are happening. Maybe more stuff is selling, or maybe people hit that November, December and they said they’re going to take their houses off the market over the holidays. Rather than they come to September, October, they feel like no one’s going to buy a house over Christmas, “Let’s just take our house off the market and wait a few months.”
I wonder, we should try to get some year-over-year historical data for next time and see what happened last December because it makes sense to me that houses would come off the market. This would be one of my theories. It’s either good news and stuff’s selling or more stuff’s off the market.
Pat: Washington posted an our article too where they asked people to predict. This came out January 6, literally yesterday. They’re saying, “With unemployment hovering over a 50-year low, and the interest rates well below historical norms, the real estate industry is being dragged down by scarcity in housing stock.” Their sense of saying, “Because the inventory is getting eaten.”
It’s like food that gets eaten and there’s no food left in the fridge, especially in affordable price ranges, not enough new homes are being built, especially in affordable price ranges, and homeowners are staying put longer. There’s your answer. That’s all that happened. They reached out to NAR and they said– NAR predicts moderate growth in the housing market, they expect the number of sales to rise to a 13-year high, which is an interesting prediction. Realtor.com did a prediction.
The Post got all these good things. They’re saying that it’s going to be more challenging for buyers next year to find a home. Realtor.com is saying, they’re predicting almost a 2% downward drive in existing home sales just because of those reasons, because there’s not enough and I guess people are just bailing, even though the rates are like McDadi rates, for multiple reasons, they’re just not going to buy.
Aaron: Yes, it’s that whole supply and demand thing. It also makes sense if they’re saying that the housing stock that they’re missing is the nicer stuff that’s affordable, you see more 10, 20, $30,000 houses on the market getting wholesale or staying vacant in communities and then the stuff that’s livable. When there’s less available on the market, people have that choice with the low rates. They’re either going to bid more than other people in order to get that house, or after a while, they get discouraged and they take a break. They say, “It’s too hard to find a house right now. Let’s wait.”
Pat: Yes, it’s funny. It’s interesting. You never know, but it’s cool to see everybody have to put their predictions out there ahead of time. Anyways, I guess we’ll wait and see. Let’s move on. I saw there was a big– in Texas, where you live part of the time, there was a big lawsuit with CoreLogic that got settled. Tell me about that.
Aaron: This is super interesting. I saw this a week ago. Yes, in Austin, it’s one of my homes. Texas is a state that’s called a non-disclosure state. I think there’s maybe 8 or 10 of them, states out there that are non-disclosure states. A non-disclosure state mean when somebody sells their house or buys their house, that dollar amount isn’t public record. In California, if I sell my house for $400,000, everybody knows it sold for $400,000, but in Texas when you sell a house, you’re allowed to mark down, be non-disclosure, you don’t have to disclose it, so your deed can actually say you bought it for $10.
The reason that’s important is– There’s all sorts of reasons that non-disclosure states are important. It’s when somebody’s going to try to figure out how much a house is worth or not, they have to hire a real estate agent because the real estate agent has the MLS data which is accurate because it’s not public record, but the reason that there was this big lawsuit was– CoreLogic, let me make sure that I know who is [crosstalk] CoreLogic.
Pat: CoreLogic, yes.
Aaron: CoreLogic was selling real estate data to the Travis County Appraisal District. In Travis County, appraisers every year, they go and they say, “This is what your house is worth now and we’re going to adjust your property taxes as a result of that.” The Travis County Appraisal District from CoreLogic, they wanted to buy that MLS data, so they can get more accurate. so that way [crosstalk]–
Pat: Of course. I don’t know. Like in Maryland, and I think in South Carolina, it’s the same thing. It’s a given. I was selling real estate close to 30 years and I always just assumed that everybody did the same thing. You know what I mean? The title company just gave the information to the broker, the broker put in MLS and the county saw that you sold it and you got at a high price for it and then they jacked your price up based on what they saw. I just thought it was public information.
Aaron: In California, when I sold my house, or if I bought a house, they changed my value to whatever I bought it for and the property taxes were based on that, but in Texas, they have this Appraisal District that they have appraisers that are responsible to guess what your house is every year. I think it’s January or February every year.
Pat: It’s an assessment, so they could be completely wrong. A lot of times, they just do a percentage. If you’ve owned it for 40 years and they do a 0.5% a year, your assessment’s going to be way lower than it’s actually worth.
Aaron: Yes. They’re selling this data. Appraisal District totally wants more data, but the Austin Board of Realtors sued CoreLogic and said, “You did not have a right to sell our data.” The realtors are saying that MLS, they own the data. They didn’t have a right to sell that. The they sent them a cease and desist. They also sent a cease and desist letter over to the Travis County Board of Realtors and said, “You have to destroy all that stuff. Even though you already have it, now you need to destroy it. You can’t use it anymore.” They settled.
It was a lawsuit that ended up coming down to a settlement that says, eight months after they sued them. As the results of it, CoreLogic refunded the Travis County for that. They’re no longer selling them the data. They can no longer use the data. That could be some precedent for realtor offices out there to be protecting that data. Realtors want to protect that data and Austin has proved that they can.
Pat: Yes. That’s good that they won. It is what it is. If you’re not supposed to sell it and it’s not supposed to be public, then you want to keep it private. It actually does help the consumer, because you could be buying a house and paying a lot less taxes than the house is actually worth, especially if you’re buying, like I said, from someone that’s owned it for a long time.
Aaron: Yes, you don’t want them to know what you sold it for. You don’t want them to guess there’s a better chance to your property tax– Because here’s the other thing, if they charge you too much for your property tax, you can go dispute it and actually prove what you bought it for. If they assess you too high, you can go argue with them and say, “No, I bought it for less than that,” but if they assess you too low, then you just get to be happy.
Pat: It’s just so weird. How do these county assessors even come up with what your house is worth? I guess appraisers have access to MLS. That’s what CoreLogic was, was the access to the MLS. Doesn’t like Zillow and– can’t you get solds on some of these websites now or is that only in certain states? I know in Zillow, you can see what stuff is sold for, but I guess that’s based on the county records.
Aaron: It’s a little of both. Zillow for Austin Texas, some properties it’ll say, “This is what it sold for.” Some properties, it’ll say, “It sold,” and all they’ll tell you is what it last listed for it how long it was on the market. They have to make some guesses. The Appraisal District can say, “Oh, they listed it for $200,000, but it took them four months to sell it, so maybe they sold it for 180 or 190.” They educate as they try to do it, but it’s that data. We’re living in a time where data is worth so much money.
There’s all these real estate technology companies coming out there that are basing all of their– they’re creating all this new tech on this new wave of real estate. It is like the age of data. These companies are gathering, selling the data for a ton of money and they’re holding on to what they have that makes them unique.
Pat: It’s crazy. I guess it’s beneficial to the agents there in the agent community, because it makes your MLS and your access to the MLS worth that much more money. Worth your wait, gives you a reason as a consumer to have to call an agent because they have all the sold info.
Aaron: I tell you what, it happened to me in county, it’s three hours west of Austin. I bought a house out there as a flip. I was used to seeing public record comp data and there was none. I had to call a local real estate agent because the MLS had that data and they weren’t sharing it with Zillow or anything else, so I had to hire an agent instead of hiring a flat-rate listing and I had to pay the full commission price because he had the data. He could tell me what it was going to sell for.
Pat: Crazy. Let’s talk technology, man. There’s some crazy stuff going on with technology, all these companies flourishing, popping up and these are some we haven’t even talked about. I want to start off by talking about this company Perch. It’s P-E-R-C, which basically recently just changed its name to Orchard. Orchardhomes.com. Basically, it’s a Redfin model.
If you don’t know about Redfin, licensed agents that are salaried employees. Salaried employees, they offer an all-digital close, they raised 20 million last year. They just raised, this month, 36 million more. They’ve raised a total of 69 million, so let’s say $70 million. All recently, or last couple of years. These guys got $70 million in the coffer.
They’re a real estate sales company, revenues coming from commissions and iBuyer type stuff, which they do want to be recognized as an iBuyer, but a lot of people are after that profit as well. Everybody, let’s say. They’re on the move. I just find it fascinating. What do you think about this?
Aaron: The article says that Perch started as an iBuyer. Maybe we’re talking about iBuyer as a bunch over the last couple months. They started as an iBuyer, and then it said one of their business, their next business model in the next phase was they would offer a home sale guarantee, or they would buy–
If you said I want to sell my house and I want to buy that one, they would buy the next one for you in cash and list your old house on the market and if they didn’t sell it within a certain amount of days. For them to be able to transact and sell your house, they would actually loan you the money to buy your next one, so you could move out.
There’s a couple of businesses doing that, but now they’re taking it to another level, where they’re trying to do this just perfect end-user experience, from buying to selling. They want you to say–
Pat: All digital close.
Aaron: All digital close.
Pat: They’re trying to make the whole thing all digital and, if possible, I think, eventually, if they’re not already, this is where they’re going, and then have the employees, the salaried employees transact it. Ideally, a lot of these companies, I think, want the transaction to be no human being physically met, like handshaking.
It’s what GEICO insurance did to the insurance industry, where they took out the insurance agent hand-to-hand contact, face-to-face contact, hired telemarketers to do the job, and then drop their prices. It’s the same thing. This is, I think, what these guys are getting at.
Aaron: Yes, I’m trying to figure out how they really make their money. I guess maybe it’s just a low commission split model or maybe they get a spread when they’re buying the next house. When it says they’ve raised that much money, there’s obviously going to be some sort of an upside for the real estate experience they’re offering, but yes, that end-user, all digital close, I think 2020 is going to be the year where we’re going to see just a lot more of that. There’s a few big companies on the market doing that. Like I said, it’s going to be all about real estate technology this year.
Pat: Yes. A lot of this money, a lot of this 70 mil, it’s not going in the traditional real estate build. It’s not building a RE/MAX or building a Keller Williams or something like that. A lot of it’s going into technology and these guys has scientists. Let me read this. This might explain some of what they’re trying to do as well as what we’ve already talked about.
It says, for example, Orchard has improved its search function ability to allow users to choose which photo they’re searching for. Let’s say the master bedroom is the most important room in the home to you, or the kitchen, Orchard lets you search by pictures of that room as you browse homes. Let’s go with kitchen. You can browse homes and you could search by kitchens based on the photograph.
Orchard is also working on a new machine learning powered search system that would allow users to select five homes they love to help the search algorithms find homes similar to them. It’s not the consumer that’s trying to look at this house and look at this house.
Let’s say you’re looking for a big, flat backyard, because you have five big dogs, and you want it to be fenced and flat and whatever. You start clicking on algorithms, just clicking on photos of flat backyards, it’s going to find houses for you that have this perfect backyard or perfect kitchen.
Aaron: That’s totally smart. It is smart. When people are looking for stuff, people are picky and people have their things that they like. You really never know what it is, but I think that’s pretty smart that they find a way to go, “This person’s always looking at the kitchen.” Traditional rules that we used to always think, no, you need a picture of the front yard, you need a picture of the house in an angle, you need a picture of the kitchen and a picture of the master bath, but maybe now, different people have different things they’re looking for.
If you go to the Orchard Homes website right at the very beginning, it says, and this may have been before they started making changes, “Become a cash buyer. We’ll help you find a home you love,” that’s with their technology, “and then we’re going to reserve that house using our cash. You no longer have to make a contingent offer. We’re going to buy that house in cash for you, then skip the showings. After you move out of the house into your new house, we’re going to clean it up, list your old house for sale and sell it for you. We sell it for top dollar because now it’s cleaned up and empty.”
They’re trying to say, “We’re going to help you buy another house and then we’re going to sell your old house,” all digital and that’s that full spectrum for that user. You’re like, “Hey, I want a new house.” They help you find it, they find it, you move, they sell your old one, you’re like, “That was easy, that’s the easy button.”
Pat: Yes, the weird thing, I mentioned before about the 69 million. Here’s the thing. They also got a debt raise. Basically, they’ve raised $220 million. I found another article, it says, home buying and selling platform is 220 million in debt equity. It just says, the 220 million, a combination of equity, 20 mil, to fund the operations in debt 200 mil to finance home purchasing. Basically, you have a loan for 200 million of which they could tap into and buy and sell and flip houses.
Aaron: Yes. I was going to say, that’s where that debt was going to have to be. If they’re telling you, “Hey, we’re going to go buy your next house in cash for you, so that way you don’t have to get a loan on it,” that’s the debt. They’re going to use that to go buy this house of the person’s moving into while they sell–
Pat: The weird thing, Aaron, is the total traditional method of building a real estate company is changing. If you look at Coldwell Banker and RE/MAX and whatever companies, the whole concept was you start a company, you hire an office manager, that manager recruits agents or agents take a test and then you take a class through you, you bring them on, you train them, that sort of thing, and you just recruit.
You recruit agents, you retain agents over a very long period of time. Decades, centuries. Now these companies are coming in and say, “Hey,” this company, Perch, which is now Orchard, started in 2017, they’re cutting the chase. There’s none of that recruiting and opening up offices and all that shit. It’s just straight to, “This is how we do it and this is how we grow,” then agents join them. Obviously, they’re trying to offer a lot of things that aren’t what the traditional real estate companies are offering.
Aaron: eXp was one of the first ones that started doing that, or maybe not one of the first ones.
Pat: They didn’t start with cash. They’re more traditional in their recruitment, more like Keller Williams in their recruitment. They recruited with profit share, so it was through the agents versus through the office manager.
Aaron: That’s true. Some are going to recruit through tech, this Orchard, they’re recruiting for the idea like, “Look, we’re providing the people cash. Of course, they’re going to use you.” [crosstalk]
Pat: That’s like a Redfin too. People go to Redfin because they’re like– There was an agent that used to work at my team that works for Redfin now. They go there for the salary. You’re a licensed agent and you’re like, “You know what, I don’t want the ups and downs of this. I’m going to go to Orchard and get a salary, and I could do what I love, but get a salary.”
This merges into a couple other articles that popped up. I was reading some articles on TechCrunch and the HousingWire and they talked about these two companies that are kind of similar but also different, but it’s a fascinating way that people are buying houses now that I had never heard of before. What do you know about Fleq? F-L-E-Q, fleq.com.
Aaron: Yes, and I think this is actually a sign of that lower inventory thing. All these companies, one of their headlines is, “Now you can be a cash buyer,” right? This new one, Fleq, this is super interesting. I hadn’t heard about this until now. They’re saying, “Hey, we’re going to be the cash buyer for you to go in and buy this house, but you’re just going to buy a portion of it.”
If you can go buy this house for $200,000 and you’ve got $10,000 but you want to be a homeowner, they say, “Okay, we’ll go buy this house with you, but you’re going to won 5% of the house and we’re going to own 95% of the house.” Let’s say you’re buying a house for $100,000, you put in $50,000, so you own half the house, they own half the house. That means you’re going to share in half of the mortgage, half of the expenses, pay rent on the other portion.
It’s really interesting. I think it’s mostly for people that have been traditionally renters and don’t have enough money or can’t get qualified for a full purchase, but they want to be able to have a belief that they’re gaining some equity. They get to have that equity in the house. If they sell in a year or two, it’s super easy. They say, “Hey, we’ll just buy you out.” Maybe if you put in $10,000, the next year you get $8,000 back, maybe $12,000 back, I don’t know.
Pat: I like this idea because it solves an overreaching problem. You listen to some of these presidential candidates and they address this unaffordability factor that exists in the United States right now, it’s very– You make $45,000 a year, it’s very difficult to go out there and buy a house in a lot of these metropolitan areas that’s in a safe neighborhood. If you make $25,000 a year, you can’t, right?
Pat: This affordability factor of homeownership is a problem, and this solves that, because you can essentially go in and say, “Look, I got $1,000.” It’s going to cost $10,000 in closing, so I’m never going to save up that extra nine. Fleq puts up nine, you put up one. You own 10% of the house, Fleq owns 90% of the house.
Your septic system goes up, because the house is built in 1950. It costs $10,000, you pay $1,000, they pay $9,000. Your AC goes out, it costs $3,000. You pay $300, they pay $2,700. For people that are scared to own homes because of the potential massive amount of repairs, it’s a great deal, reminds me of the car industry.
Aaron: Yes, I think it solves the problem, too, because for people that are worried about the risk of owning a home or a downside of the nerves of that, they get to own the house. On these websites, they say, “You can still remodel it, you can improve it. We encourage that. It’s your house.”
Pat: Right. You can paint it. You could have 10 dogs.
Aaron: Yes, but if the roof gets messed up and it has to be replaced, you’re not on the hook for the whole thing. Everybody that owns their house, most people who own their house, they still have a loan for 90% of it. Everybody, when they say they own their house, but if you buy a house and you get a loan for 90%-
Pat: It’s a good point.
Aaron: -but the roof goes out, you pay for the whole thing, so I don’t own my house outright. I’ve got a loan on it.
Pat: I didn’t think about that.
Aaron: [crosstalk] these guys and then share it, right?
Pat: Another cool thing about it that I like about it is you can– Again, this is why it reminds me of the car industry, you could jump from house to house. You could live in a house for a year and be like, “Honey, let’s buy–” Let’s say you have twins, unexpected twins, and you already have two kids. You’re like, “We need two more bedrooms.”
You could buy another house in the neighborhood that comes up for sale literally five months after buying your first house, and you could transfer your equity in one Fleq to the next without ever listing your house for sale. Literally, you could buy that house cash, do another Fleq deal, transfer your Fleq–
Aaron: It’s like a trade-in. You’re trading in your house.
Pat: Yes, it’s like a car trade-in. You’re trading it in. You’re trading the equity in, and literally, the next week, you could own another house and get rid of the first one, just like a car.
Aaron: I do think it’s pretty– Maybe if you trade out within the first year, maybe you lose a couple thousand bucks. Maybe if you stay in that house for over a year, you gain a couple thousand. I don’t quite know how that part will work but that definitely is the story behind it on how they do it. You can move out whenever you want.
Pat: Here’s the other thing too, prices go down. Pay $500 for a house, you want to bail in three years, next thing you know, it’s worth $420, I mean, you’re not on the hook. You’re on the hook for 10%.
Aaron: Right. You lose a little bit of your money, you don’t lose all your money. It’s the benefits of homeownership, it all sounds like. I have not done a Fleq deal, I haven’t read any reviews yet, but this thing, it sounds like it’s the benefits of homeownership without the risk. The only thing that you’re really giving up is if the house gains $100,000 in value and resells, you don’t get to make $100,000, you only get your percentage of it.
That’s the only downside for all those upsides. I could see that really being– There’s the crazier part, so this, I hadn’t even heard about but there’s another company too that’s doing the same thing or something similar. It’s a competitor of Fleq. Do you know which one [crosstalk]?
Pat: Yes, Haus, H-A-U-S. That one, I think it might have started first. This one, it was by this guy Garrett Camp who was a co-founder of Uber.
Aaron: Yes, it’s the tech in the real estate. Their website says the same thing, “Homeownership within reach. Now, you can be a cash buyer. Plus, you can access your equity.” That one, it sounds like you can actually cash out some of your equity. Let’s say you put $20,000 down for a house but in a few months you need $10,000 out of it, you can take some out, you can put more back in. It’s like a savings account, but you own your percentage of your house.
Pat: Yes. Sell your house without fees.
Aaron: The guy, co-founder of Uber, that’s a big deal, right? Getting somebody like that jumping into do some tech thing. They’ve obviously done a thing or two.
Pat: It’s interesting. They got a “Sell with Haus. It’s free and simple.” I don’t know how it is free. No commission? “Tell us about your home, book a photographer, schedule services, and start the paperwork. We post your listing in the Multiple List. We also give you free signs and flyers. You receive and compare offers. Haus handles the closing to finalize the sale.”
Aaron: What’s the catch? Rockstar listeners, if you guys know what the catch is or you know more about these companies and you’ve had an experience, send us a message or an e-mail or something. We’d love to know more because right now, we’re pretty excited about what might be happening around that.
Pat: Very interesting, right?
Pat: The Haus thing, it says, “Forget the rules of real estate. We’re not a banker or lender. We’re a co-investor. We share in the equity of your home.”
Aaron: Next thing is going to be just Bitcoin.
Aaron: [laughs] Somebody’s going to take this through the whole thing where it’s like, “All-digital plus we just do Bitcoin.” It’s like totally forget all the rules. It’s pretty cool.
Pat: Yes, it’s a pretty big operation. I don’t know but it’d be interesting to watch, I think. I think they’re kind of neat. I think anything that’s going to get people– The downside of renting, obviously, your landlord could raise the rent at any time. Your landlord could kick you out when they want to sell it or just kick you out for any reason. When your lease is up, you have no control.
These things give you an opportunity to have that control, to paint it whatever you want, to do whatever you want, to pretend like you own it, and essentially do own part of it, but to not have you jacked up if you decide you don’t want it anymore or have you have it be unaffordable because it sure as hell makes it extremely affordable when you only got to contribute 5% of the total cost.
Aaron: I think one the sides I said, you have to come up with at least $10,000. Other than that, that was it. You could buy a house for a few hundred thousand dollars, $10,000.
Pat: Yes, that was Haus, that was 10. Haus has a minimum of 10% but Fleq doesn’t. Fleq, I think, don’t have a minimum. They can own the whole thing, I think. I’m not sure. Anyways. Awesome, man. Well, this has been a blast, buddy. This is a good state of the market and I’ve had a lot of fun.
Aaron: Yes, I’ve had a lot of fun, too. It’s going to be a fun year seeing what takes off this year for the news. I can’t wait to talk to you again about the next state of the market.
Pat: All right, buddy.